Silly hollow body guitar question, but what the hell....

OK guys....as you probably know, I'm wailing away on my cheap Fender knockoff solidbody, and although I'm no pro yet and still just mainly chording the hell out of it, I'm just not happy with the 'bland' sound it's putting out....and since I don't have the serious bucks at this time to invest in a real Gretsch, I have been scheming a way to procure a cheap hollow body electric guitar that will come a lot closer to "the sound" than what I have now. Which leads me to these somewhat silly (I'm not a guitar tech guy) questions that hopefully I can get your input on....

1) What do you think about a vintage electric, like a Kay, Harmony, or the Japanese models, like Apollo, Domino, Teisco, etc? I missed the bid on a 70's model Kawai hollowbody (with a knock-off Bigsby) by a few bucks on ebay the other day, and I was wondering about the quality....this one looked pretty darn nice. I'm not a rich man, but I understand most of the sound quality of a guitar come from the pickups; I'm not above springing for a higher quality set for a cheap guitar, if that's feasible (a luthier I am not, although I'm good with my hands).

2) Adding a Bigsby to an electric hollowbody that doesn't already have one...can this be done easily? I see cheaper non-tremolo electric models all the time, and with the addition of a Bigsby/bridge combo, I was wondering if it would play reasonably well?

3) And last, buying and repairing a damaged or factory-second guitar...can it be done reasonably? I found a nice Epiphone Les Paul '56 Gold top for sale on the web, where the headstock broke off at the nut....it's cheap, but with damage like that, can it be fixed?

Thanks ahead of time to you gurus here on this fine forum for helping me out....
Rob

Hi,

maybe my suggestions will help a bit:

top1.: i don´t know these brands you`re wrote in your post, but i would check Johnson, Ibanez, Gretsch Electromatic, Hagstrom, Epiphone.
Try to get some TV Jones Classic Trons Pick ups und put it in your guitar. You will come closer to your preferred sound.
Or for less money these newer Gretsch Filtertrons. But it has to be the new ones (2-3 years old). I put TV Jones in my Pro Jet Solid Body and this guitar jumped into a higher level. In my Telecaster Thinline i use Filterrons and this is also an amazing sound. All my guitars sounds different, but all sounds "Gretschy".
You could ask the TV Jones guys about your guitar and which PU´s are the best. They are really nice and cooperative. I had only good expierence with this company and I´m from Europe.

top2: the work is not so difficult, but it`s easy to destroy the thin wood of the guitar.
You need to drill in your guitar and maybe you have to place your bridge new.
So, my opinion: let it do by an professionell Guitar technician. Or try to find a guitar with Bigsby or Bigsby licensed.

top 3: same answer, it is possible but it has to be done by a profi.
and 56 Les paul Epiphone is far away from Gretsch Sound. It`s a very good sound if you want to play Gary Moore or Guns`n Roses. You could also play Rockabilly with a Paula, but it is different from Gretsch.

Only my thoughts, it don´t have to be your way.
But maybe it helps.

Cheers

Brett

Flattop Rob,

Here are my answers to your questions.

1) Looks can sometimes be deceiving. I've seen guitars that look like they must sound beautiful only to try them and have them sound awful, and vice versa. Japan makes the Setzer signature guitars now, and everyone raves about their quality, so I imagine some of the older instruments might have good quality as well, although I wouldn't expect the same level as the SS gretsches. You're right about the pickups, but alot of the sound also comes from the type of wood used, finish, bracing, etc. These properties are probably going to affect a hollowbody guitar more than a solidbody like your Fender, since a hollowbody is sort of a cross between a full electric and an acoustic with sound that resonates through the vibration of the body cavity. That said a pickup modification is doable, and not a bad idea if you find a combination that you like.

2) Adding a Bigsby can be done. I don't know how "easy" it will be. At a minimum you will probably have to do drill some holes, install some screws, etc. which wouldn't be too hard, except for the caution about cracking the wood of the gtr. which can happen very easily. The hard part however, would be in adjusting the guitar's bridge/action for each of the strings to avoid buzzing frets, slipping out of tune, etc. This can be tricky for a beginner. http://www.bigsbyguitars.com/news4.html has information and videos of how to install a bigsby on diff. style guitars. I think if done right the guitar can certainly play well with a Bigsby. If you find a guitar you like, it might not even be that expensive to have a guitar tech. install it. You'd have to see what the numbers are like.

3) That can be done, but I'd advise against it. A broken headstock is a serious problem with a guitar, and even if/when replaced the guitar is not going to sound exactly like it did before the replacement. In the end, the numbers are probably going to be cheaper to buy a good guitar vs. all the money you'd spend fixing the broken one.

Let me close by saying good luck with everything, but before you get into all kinds of modifications, etc. remember that after everything else is done most of your tone comes from your fingers regardless of the type of guitar you play.

Capt. Jones

P.S. How are the lessons going?

MY advice is buy a 5120 Electromatic first. You can go to T V Jones's website and see he has mounts for Filtertrons. New a 5120 is about $550.

Hey Flattop Rob,
No silly questions, just dumb answers!
1...Gotta agree with the other guys here, looks can be decieving. They can look great but sound crap and visa versa. Alot of the early knock offs were mass produced and have intonation, staying in tune, sound probs etc, but I've found some that have been pre-loved and had alot of work (read money that you don't have to spend) done to them. Really the best way is to actually try them out, play them as long as you can and really strum/bend the strings/try different amps. If the staff/seller aint willing, then he/she doesn't want a sale, and there usually is a reason for that, the guitar isn't any good.
2....Me i can work on cars, houses, bikes....but not guitars! Leave it to the professionals.
3....Broken headstocks can be repaired, look at Brian's guitar! But at a price, whether it be money and/or sound. Save ya bucks and wait.
After having said that, the decision is yours. I enjoy my sound and guitar, others prefer theirs, but the bigger picture is just to enjoy!!
Cheers Pete.

Hey Guys,

Agree with the others on # 1

#2 My first guitar was an Ibanez waaayyy back in 1987. I put a bigsby on it that actually came off an old solid body guitar. Essentially, I used the screw hole that was on the butt end of the Ibanez (the part that holds the strap on) as the only screw that "held" the bigsby in place. I believe I put some very thin rubber cut to the shape of the bottom of the bigsby in between the bigsby and the guitar body to prevent scratching and to give it a little grip without more screws. Once you get the strings on, the natural tension kept the bigsby still. Worked very well, and as a matter of fact, moved it onto a different guitar later on. If you felt unsure about doing it yourself you could have a luthier do something similar fairly inexpensively. In conclusion, I think this is the best course for a cheap, in between idea.

#3 The 5120's do look good for the money, but you can really tell the differance between the pick-ups they come with and a set of filter-trons. Once you add up the cost of a 5120, the filter-trons and paying somebody to swap the pick-ups for you, you might just save a little more money up and eventually get a used 6120. The 6120 will hold it's value, but a hot rodded 5120...not so much, I think. (Sorry 5120 owners...just trying to help)

I couldnt really afford a new gretsch either so I opted for the Ibanez AF 75,although mine is the model without the bigsby they do offer one with the bigsby. They usually sell on e bay for around $300 or less with a hard case. Granted it wont have that "great Gretsch sound" but played through my Peavey Classic 50 it has a nice sound. I am hoping to add the Bigsby to mine soon and will probably do it myself then take it to a pro to have him fix my mistake( planning ahead )

Although I agree with the others, I was in your position at one time. I took the electromatic route and put tv jones pickups on it, sounds fantastic!
I would suggest this or really wait and learn as much as you can on that solid body, it'll pay off when you get a guitar you really like the sound of. I have a korean fender, sounds pretty good, but indeed not a gretsch. Besides, Brian and many others continue to say, the tone is really in your fingers! This is true, although i did notice the change in sound from fender to gretsch, it still sounded like me. Only until I really focused on improving finger postition, pressure and tone, did the gretsch go to work for me!

What ever you choose all the luck! (p.s if you hang around ebay long enough you can pick up a setzer hot rod for 900-1500 bux u.s.)

peavey did a rockabilly orientated semi called the rockingham about 2-3 years ago - got top reviews in guitar mags -was prob two thirds price of a 5120

OK. I also was in your boat.

I bought the Ibanez Artcore AF75, (the one w/o the Bigsby; the one WITH the Bigsby is a THIN guitar, like an ES-335. The thicker AF75 is what you want to approximate a Gretsch.) I bought before the Electromatic 5120's came out. Very nice guitar for the price. I put GFS Liverpools (Filtertron look-alikes) in it. The guitar doesn't sound like a Gretsch, but it sounds pretty good. If I could do it over, I would definitely buy an Electromatic 5120. Great guitar.

That being said, even if I had bought a 5120, I won't be totally happy until I have an SSLVO, or maybe a Hot Rod. Gives me something to look forward too...

BTW there is a link on the Bigsby web site that shows how to install a Bigsby Vibrato. Ive never done it but it looks fairly easy.

Hello all,
I got this, made in Korea about 5 years ago, new in 1999, has a vibrato similar to Bigsby, paid $350, has the 2K pickups and , for the money honey, it does the time...but then again, if you DO have more money....


Product: DeArmond Starfire Special
Price Paid: UNKNOWN
Submitted 08/07/2007 at 04:29pm by Cameron
Email: blasphemizer<at>msn dot com

Features : 7
The finish is great, I have had mine for about 6 years now and it still looks great. It stays in tune despite the constant thrashing I give it. As a lot of these reviewers have said the pickups are great. My only complaint is that the wiring/pots have given me a lot of problems. I just had it rewired, and the pots replaced at a best buy!!!, I know I am an idiot for doing this but I needed it that weekend for a gig, and my usual repair guy wasn't going to be able to get it fixed in time, and well needles to say, after having them work on it, the problem has come back and will need to be fixed again.

Sound : 10
The sound is great. Playing a more diverse style of psychobilly, it handles every thing I throw at it, from ska to hillbilly, even some metal, it rocks. I have not been able to find a guitar any where near its price range, that can beat it. In fact I just got rid of a gibson les paul because I don't think it could beat the sound of my dearmond.

Action, Fit, & Finish : 9
No problems, it sounds as great as the day I brought it home.

Reliability/Durability : 9
This guitar is built like a tank. I have thrashed it, knocked it over, dropped it, and in general beat the hell out of it, and have had no major structural problems. Its only weakness would be the wiring and the pots.

Customer Support : No Opinion
N/A

Overall Rating : 10
This has been my main guitar since I bought it, It has gigged extensively, it has been drenched in sweat, splatered with blood, and even puked on once. I have played it constantly everyday for six years, and five long years with my current band, the Aftershocks. When I play a gig it is a part of me an extension of my being. It is an old friend, I can't say enough nice things about this guitar. If you have the chance to get one, do it you won't regret it.

This thread makes me really glad that Brian and I decided to launch a Forum again. Nice stuff guys.

-Tommy

cool pic Tommy
The next vest should support a Gretsch guitar.

Wee.

To all,
Thanks for ALL the info you guys have given...I think my best bet is to wait it out, save my money, and spring for a Gretsch, even if it's an entry-level 5120 with swapped pickups...can't blame a guy for getting "antsy", but there's no substitute for what I really want...I'm afraid I wouldn't be satisfied with anything else...

Davy...the lessons are, well, coming along...somewhat slowly, because of my work schedule...I'm plunking away...
Rob

Hey Rob,

take a mnute and look at Ebay, 6120 in good shape prob less than 2 grand, I'd avoid the hassle if thats what you truly want ( this is a discussion I have a lot with my guitar always wanting a different sound 25 yr old son who has swapped up to a couple of my more expensive guitars "allowing" me to give him a "deal" ).

But the difference in a truly good sounding box is just a matter of you taking the time to find the right one. I mentioned the lower end and others have said go with lessor 5120 and upgrade pickups., etc..but for a newbie, the new love of your life should have taken time to pick it out, and I'd also look at local store options in your area... yes a little more expensive, but when I can go to Willie's American Guitars here in St Paul and have one of the best techs in the country work on a guitar of mine; the extra price and service gives me peace of mind that I did it right ..in search of whatever sound I was looking for at the time.

Take your time, wait for the bucks to build up, Cause you (nothing personal) won't be stretching the 6120 abilities for a little while unless woodshedding like a fiend for 2 years...

Find the right feel of the neck/fretboard/controls/weight and FEEL...add to that the different sounds of the various amps you'll try make this a tough choice...wish you luck , it's always fun looking